what did you meant by neutralization??!! Is it different from the agglutination??!! In such case is there any chance of having
autoagglutination complications??!!....

or maybe because that soluble antigens are free in the plasma not bonded to RBCs ,that is why no auto agglutinatin is taking place

thank you mister really very nice cases........

Well, Saying Indian in case History was only to confuse you but you are correct by saying its not Bombay group

Some cancers such as pancreatic & stomach cause release of soluble ABO antigens in the plasma, therefore imagine presence of the soluble antigens what will give

Slide method: No agglutination with all anti-sera due to neutrolization of these anti-sera by soluble antigen. In this case patient had soluble A antigen which reacted with anti-sera A and neutrolized it therefore didnt give chance to insoluble A antigen on RBCs to react with it and thus false negative.

As far as Reverse grouping is concerned cancer can effect antibodies production which could give no reaction or very weak reaction

tube method with saline washing 5-8 times should give correct forward blood grouping as it wash off these soluble antigens in plasma

Well, Saing Indian in case History was only to confuse you but you are correct by saying its not Bombay group

Some cancers such as pancreatic & stomach cause release of soluble ABO antigens in the plasma, therefore imagine presence of the soluble antigens what will give

Slide method: No agglutination with all anti-sera due to neutrolization of these anti-sera by soluble antigen. In this case patient had soluble A antigen which reacted with anti-sera A and neutrolized it therefore didnt give chance to insoluble A antigen on RBCs to react with it.

As far as Reverse grouping is concerned cancer can effect antibodies production which could give no reaction or very weak reaction

tube method with saline washing 5-8 times should give correct forward blood grouping

well, this patient is indian but no thing to do with bomby blood group
:sm186:I got "oedipus" because of this blood group----------->

as I understood, the blood group was A postive before the cancer complication has take plase ,so the cause of blood group changing is cancer complication

I am thinking if radiation can break down blood group antigen sugers which may change the chractaristic of the blood group from one to another ....:sm198:

Thanks for your answer, no comments. Giving you one more chance to to get it sorted

What is correct blood group of this patient? Explain your answer? what steps should be taken to prove correct Blood group?


correct blood group of this patient=A postive

explaination/

patient is having cancer, tumor itself can cause changes in red blood cell antigens in the detection surface, seems to produce a blood change

also patient is under treatment so he may be exposed to the dose of radiation which may cause genetic mutations and changes in red blood cell surface antigens, resulting in blood type change,

all this changes will occur in bloodstrem so the blood group will be changed temporary and once the disease is controled the blood group will return to the orginal blood group beause the bone marow production has no chages ,the change is only in the blood stream as I mentioned above...

I have realised that there is no reaction at all in both patient cellls and plasma,I am not sure that ,is this mean that the radiation or the chemothrapy kill the cells and all the antigens and antibodies are breaked down??

if this correct so,is this meant that the blood group changes in all cancers' cases will be having this picture of reaction???

to prove blood group /

I think blood grouping should be done for the patient in the controled state- out of radiation effect.....

in this case cross match must be compatible with all blood groups,because
there are no antigens as well as antibodies in vitro
but in vivo transfusion reaction may take place becase of haemopoiesis
of the original blood group gathering with all original antibodies and antigen

An indian with Pancreatic carcinoma on treatment required urgent blood transfusion due to cancer complications. Previous hospital records showed that he is A Rh(D) positive, however Forward & reverse grouping showd different phenomenon as follows:
Forward grouping: Anti-A = No agglutination
Anti-B = No agglutination
Reverse grouping: A1 cells = No agglutination
B cells = No agglutination

What is correct blood group of this patient? Explain your answer? what steps should be taken to prove correct Blood group?

that is mean that any A,B antigen was H antigen in nature......and those who are having bomby blood group can transfer the A,B blood group to the next generation although that A,B antigen is not expresed on them.....

attached file is really nice and simple

thank you mister,,,,,,
I think that I must return back to the IHS and learn more...

In simple words, Hh or HH alleles produce H transferase enzyme which adds up fucose sugar on glycolipid of the RBCs and make it to express H antigen. Modification of H antigen or conversion of H antigen to A or B antigen on red blood cell can take place if A and/or B alleles present respectively. A or B alleles produce specific transferase enzyme that can add up specific sugar on H antigen to modify it to A or B or AB blood group. This is how red blood cells ABO antigens formed. Individuals with Bombay blood group can not make H antigen since they have hh allele, therefore A, B or AB antigens will never form eventhough ABO alleles are present. Remember H antigen is always needed for ABO antigens make up.

As far as recombination possibility is concerned, attached is PDF file please read it and let me know if you need any clarification

Thanks

thank you soooooo much,

I do realised that this O blood group may be bomby blood group, but what I do not no actually that the absence of H antigen can mask B allel,always am keeping in my mind that when ever O blood group is there no chance of any other antigen to be there because O means =zero antigen ,so B as dominant must be expresed
and O as a ressesive must be masked in case of "BO", according to this general role I aplied my answers.
,,,,by the way this is a new exeption I learn it from you .....
thank you

second reason you will be most thanked and appreciated if you could elaborate more

Thanks for your answers, You are quite correct with your last two statements but let me sort it out now:
Yes it is possible to have B blood group baby in this family due to 2 reasons:

1. If you read carefuly a key word in this case it says indian family, therefore possibility of Bombay blood group can not be excluded, lets assume the father who is O blood group is actually Bombay blood group. Serolgical test showed O blood group as phenotype but as far as genotype is concerned he is hh genotype. ABO locus in the father could have B allele that can not show itself as phenotype due to absence of H antigen since genotype is hh. Because we inherit one allele from each parent, B gene allele can be inherited to the offspring though it is not expressed in the father

2. If the father is actual O blood group & not Bombay, possibility of having child with B blood still valid: Gene recombination can play a crucial role to get such rare phenomenon. Such explanation based on molecular understanding if you are interested i will explain it to you in details. Please let me know

Back>>>>

I will try once again,although that I am not that much satisfied with this answer but I am trying my best to solve the case:sm180:......



this blood group may be an example of "dominant" and "recessive" traits??!!

in which one allele masks the expression of the other in influencing some trait


maybe controlled by more than just a single pair of alleles. In other words, it is due to a multiple-allele series....

I hope to be around the correct answer....

as in a chart this kind of blood group distribution can not be found,but now I am thinking if this baby may has any rare mutation which may change his blood group??!!!

really it is wrong to decide wether this baby is belong to this family or not with out
making sure by DNA studies..


I will be right back if I got any new answer.....



thank you mister....

هو احتمالية فصيلة الدم للطفل وحده من الثنتين يا إنه O أو انه A ويعتمد ها الشي على صفة ال A إذا كانت homozygous معناهاكل الاطفال راح يحملون صفة الفصيلة A وإذا heterozygousهناتكون الاحتمالية بين فصيلة الدم O إلى A مناصفة 50% لكل وحدة..

أما وجود طفل للفصيلة B في ها العايلة أعتقد مستحيلة !!!

Thanks for your contribution in this case, Giving you one more chance to make up your information and get back to the case.

Thanks